嘉宾 / Speakers:
Joseph Lubin — Co-founder of Ethereum; Founder & CEO of Consensys; Chairman of Sharplink
Joseph Chalom — CEO, Sharplink
主持 / Moderator:
Michael Camarda — CDO, Sharplink
编者说明：本文根据现场英文对话整理。英文保留较完整的现场表述，中文为经过编辑的意译版本；两种语言按发言顺序与讨论主题交替排版，并非逐字对译。嘉宾对技术路线、市场规模及未来应用的判断均为个人观点。
Editorial note: This bilingual edition is based on the live English discussion. The English text retains fuller spoken remarks; the Chinese is an edited rendering. The two languages are arranged by speaker and topic, rather than as a word-for-word translation. Forward-looking statements reflect the speakers’ views.
以太坊生态的意义 / What Ethereum Means
Michael Camarda
以太坊生态对你们各自意味着什么？先请 Joseph 回答。为避免混淆，我们称 Chalom 为 Joseph，称 Lubin 为 Joe。
I want to start with: what does the Ethereum ecosystem mean to each of you?
I’d like Joseph to start here. We’re going to go with “Joseph” and “Joe” so we don’t get too confused—Joe squared.
Joseph, tell us a little bit about what the Ethereum ecosystem means to you.
Joseph Chalom
今天这一刻对我很重要，因为在座的人拥有共同的使命。我们有意使用“生态系统”这个词。它有生产者、消费者，也有经历失败的人，而失败同样能成为养分，回馈整个生态。
First of all, I’ll be a little bit vulnerable. This moment is really, really important. We are in a group of people who are completely mission-aligned.
我在传统金融行业工作了很长时间。2018 年到 2025 年，我接触过几乎每一条链、每一个生态，最终经过认真思考，选择了以太坊。
It’s been a while since I took biology—or ecology, right? An ecosystem—and we use that word intentionally—is really important. It has producers, it has consumers, and it even has people who fail, take that failure, and put the energy back into the ground.
我更看重实质。以太坊吸引的是愿意先做难事、不走捷径的人，这让我很自豪。
What makes me most excited about being here—and I’m going to be very, very personal and open—is that I spent a long time in traditional finance. From 2018 to 2025, I met almost every chain, almost every ecosystem. I intentionally and consciously chose Ethereum.
Why? I’m a bit geeky. I’m more interested in steak than sizzle, and Ethereum tends to attract people who do the hard things first and don’t take shortcuts. I’m actually quite proud to be here.
16 个月前接手这份工作时，我知道它涉及资本市场，却没有充分意识到，向世界解释以太坊的潜力有多重要。我也从未想过自己会承担守护生态的职责。但当你成为最大的以太币持有者之一，并代表公众投资者时，你就有责任向外界解释这些事情。
When I took this role 16 months ago, I knew it was a capital markets job, but I didn’t fully understand how important it is to verbalize and communicate to the world what Ethereum can be. To be honest with you, I never thought of myself as somebody who had a stewardship role. But when you’re one of the largest owners of ether and you represent public investors, you actually have a responsibility to educate.
对我而言，生态意味着共同的使命和良好的协作。能够成为其中的一员，我很高兴。
So it’s emotional. I’m happy to be here, and I love seeing this crowd. That is my meaning of ecosystem. We work incredibly well with one another, so I’m very proud to be here.
Joseph Lubin
对我而言，以太坊意味着对整个世界运行体系的彻底变革。
Ethereum means to me the total transformation of the system of the world.
To expand, essentially, the world has been operating under centralized control systems—top-down command and control—where authorities imbue intermediaries, trusted third parties, with trust and authority. Via this top-down, hierarchical trust system, this trust infrastructure, great things can be done.
世界长期运行在自上而下的中心化控制体系中。权威机构赋予中介和受信任的第三方以信任和权力。这种分层的信任基础设施，帮助人类建立了伟大的文明。
You need coordination. You need trust. In order to have coordination, you need many intelligences—human and now machine—working together to build great things.
成就伟大的事业，需要协作，也需要信任，需要人类以及如今的机器共同参与。但这套运行了数千年的体系，并不能让每个人都充分受益，大量权力和价值往往集中在层级结构的顶端。
This system, which has been running for millennia, has built great civilizations. But it is not often the case that everybody benefits in a satisfactory way from what has been built in these civilizations. Top-down command and control enables a lot of the power and value to be captured at the top of these hierarchies.
如今，我们能够引入一种新的设计原则，以去中心化信任为基础，实现横向协作。
There are lots of other problems with these hierarchies, but we are now able to introduce a new design principle alongside top-down command and control. It is essentially based on decentralized trust: a horizontal coordination design principle.
Satoshi Nakamoto invented this powerful construct of decentralized trust. He showed us how to operationalize it in the form of the Bitcoin blockchain. Vitalik and other people came along and said, “Hey, we really need to bring decentralized trust to as many aspects of society as we can.”
中本聪通过比特币区块链，展示了去中心化信任如何实际运作。随后，Vitalik 和其他人提出，应当尽可能把它带入社会的各个方面。Vitalik 将这个宏大的目标转化成了软件工程和系统工程问题，让我们这些工程师意识到，它是可以建造出来的。
Vitalik, in his multifaceted genius, wrote the most powerful articulation of how this could be done—and how it could be done relatively quickly—because he turned it into essentially a software engineering problem, a systems engineering problem.
And we’re engineers. We realized we could build that.
今天，我们已经拥有一套面向全球、正在快速扩容的第一层信任基础设施，主要就是以太坊。其他第一层网络也会参与其中，尽管它们在去中心化程度、可信中立性和抗审查性上可能有所不同。未来，这些网络可能融合在一起，人们不再称它为以太坊，只把它看作互联网和万维网的链上版本。
We now have a rapidly scaling layer-one trust infrastructure for the planet, mostly in the form of Ethereum. There are other layer ones that provide decentralized trust—perhaps not as rigorous, not as credibly neutral, or not as censorship-resistant—but they will have some significant participation. They’ll probably all glom together, and we won’t call it Ethereum anymore. We’ll just think of it as the internet and the web, the onchain version.
早期，我们主要关注扩容，以及建设全球一体化的去中心化金融层。现在，这些技术开始进入主流。Joseph 就是推动传统金融进入去中心化基础设施的人之一。
In these first years of trying to build enabling technology, we’ve had to focus mostly on scaling, but also on building the global, integrated, digital, decentralized finance layer. We’ve done a pretty good job of that. Again, it’s just been us building stuff. It hasn’t gone mainstream yet, but it is now starting to.
传统金融与 DeFi 正在融合。最终，它们会成为一个统一的全球金融体系，取代今天彼此割裂、依赖代理银行网络、如同用胶带和胶水拼接起来的体系。
Joseph was one of the people who started bringing traditional finance onto decentralized rails. We’re seeing a merge, a hybridization of traditional finance and DeFi. We’re seeing DeFi move up into TradFi, and TradFi move down onto our rails. TradFi is using some of our tokens.
It’s all going to become finance, a global financial system, rather than this siloed, correspondent-banking, Scotch-tape-and-glue kind of financial system that essentially runs a lot of aspects of the world.
当金融变得流畅、便宜、随处可用，它就可以回到服务经济的位置。随后，我们会继续向上发展，建设去中心化社交网络、社交关系图谱，以及娱乐领域的游戏化和金融化应用。最终，所有基础设施都会逐步迁移到链上。
We’ll get to the point where it’s all very fluid and integrated, where the financial system is cheap to use and easy to use anywhere in the world. At that point, it won’t be such a big piece of the economy or its main driver. It will be a facilitator, a service provider to the economy.
We’re going to move up the stack. We’re going to see decentralized social networks, decentralized social graphs, and all sorts of gamification and financialization of entertainment. Essentially, all of the infrastructure is going to move onchain.
这就是 Web3，一个去中心化、以用户为中心的万维网。机器智能赋予人们能力，去中心化信任让这一切值得信赖。
You can think of it as Web3: the decentralized World Wide Web, the user-centric World Wide Web. It’s going to completely change the system of the world. Machine intelligence is going to empower people, and decentralized trust is going to make it all trustworthy.
链上金融与智能体 / Onchain Finance and Agents
Michael Camarda
目前，我们看到的首批应用主要是链上金融，包括代币化、稳定币和智能体金融。当初建设世界计算机时，你们预料到金融会率先发展起来吗？Joseph，你认为为什么这些事情会发生在以太坊上？
A beautiful answer, obviously.
So I guess the first use case, the first layer we have here, is decentralized finance—onchain finance. We have tokenization, stablecoins, and agentic finance coming onchain.
To both of you: did you expect that to be the first use case when you set out to build the world computer? And to Joseph: why do you think that’s happening on Ethereum?
Joseph Chalom
关于 2015 年创世区块诞生时的设想，Joe 比我更有发言权。
You’ve been at this longer than me. You would have the longer perspective on what you imagined back in July 2015, at the time of the genesis block.
我进入这个领域，是为了在传统金融与加密行业之间建立桥梁。我花了一年半研究如何将收益基金 BUIDL 代币化，最终在以太坊公链上完成了这件事，也由此深入了解了这个领域。
I was brought in to help be a bridge between traditional finance and crypto. I spent a year and a half trying to figure out how to tokenize the first yield fund, called BUIDL. It’s a super weird word. I could barely spell it for the first year, and we did it on public Ethereum. I went down the rabbit hole.
最初，我听到“可信中立、去中心化、抗审查”这些词，只觉得它们听起来很好。真正开始建设后，我才理解，每个词在稳定币和代币化资产领域都有具体含义，在未来的智能体世界中也同样如此。
But can I answer the question a little bit differently? When I started, I remembered everything Joe had said: credibly neutral, decentralized, censorship-resistant. I didn’t know what those principles meant. They sounded great. Wouldn’t you rather have something neutral than biased?
But when I started building, I realized that every one of these words has a meaning in stablecoins and tokenized assets, and will have a different meaning in an agentic world. Let me tell you my translation.
首先是可信中立性。全球最大的金融机构正在推出新产品、更换底层基础设施，这是它们五六十年来都没有做过的改变。它们不会轻易再来一次，因此必须确信，系统的运行规则不会随意改变。我认为，只有以太坊能够真正有底气地作出这个承诺。
Credible neutrality is really important. Only Ethereum can say that out loud, hand on heart, and believe it. When the world’s largest financial institutions are listing new products and changing their infrastructure, they’re making a change they haven’t made in 50 or 60 years. They’re not going to do it again. They want to make sure the rules of the road aren’t changing. That’s credible neutrality.
其次是抗审查性，也就是网络保持开放。想象一下，如果手机号码只能在一个国家使用，或者只能访问某个网站，而且别人随时可以把你排除在外，会怎样？
Then there’s censorship resistance: the idea that networks are going to be open. Can you imagine a world where my mobile phone number only worked in one country, within one border? Or where I could only use it to visit a single website, and people could exclude me?
未来，智能体需要持续存在的身份，需要记住自己的交易历史，并与不同交易场所互动。过去，抗审查意味着“你不能剥夺我的银行服务”；未来，它还意味着“你不能把我排除在外”。
In the future of agentic finance, agents are going to have a persistent identity. They’re going to have to remember every transaction they’ve ever done. They’re going to have to interact at every single venue. So censorship resistance used to mean, “You can’t unbank me.” Now it means, “You can’t exclude me.”
And this idea of decentralization was hard to translate to the largest financial institutions in the world. So let me say it differently: when you’re centralized, you rely on human trust. You have settlement risk every single day with every intermediary you use. When it’s decentralized, you don’t have all those intermediaries who can fail.
再看去中心化。在中心化体系中，你依赖对人的信任，每一家中介都可能带来结算风险。去中心化则减少了对这些可能失效的中介的依赖。
These principles—we use these words lightly—are incredibly important. When you look forward a year and a half from now, not 10 years from now, when all of us are going to have agents, we need to make sure those same principles can be encoded.
这些原则很快就会变得更加重要。往后看一年半，不必等十年，我们每个人可能都会拥有智能体。智能体应当为用户服务，其权限边界由代码和智能合约保障，并能参与开放的商业活动。
The agent works for me. It has limits, and those limits are going to be respected by code, by smart contracts. These agents are going to be able to participate in open commerce without being excluded—again, credible neutrality—and the rules aren’t going to change.
我还记得早期互联网服务的隐私政策，承诺不会使用你的数据，也不会与第三方分享。可下一次更新应用、点击确认后，规则就变了，连我的度假照片都成了它们的财产。
I’m old enough to remember the first dot-com boom. You subscribed to a service, read the privacy policy, and it said they couldn’t use your data or share it with third parties. Those were the rules. Guess what? The next time I updated the app and clicked through it, all of a sudden it said my vacation pictures were theirs. I’m not kidding.
在智能体世界中，我们还要依赖大型机构自我约束吗？如果合同规则可以随时改变，你的智能体就可能在你不知情时，转而为它们服务。
In an agentic world, your agent is supposed to work for you. It’s supposed to have limits, accountability, and a persistent identity. Are we going to rely on the world’s largest institutions to self-police? Are we going to agree to some bilateral contract where the rules can change a minute later, and before you know it, your agent works for them?
因此，这些原则会先在金融市场落地，再进入智能体世界。如果做得对，人们将获得前所未有的财务自主权和决策能力，并创造巨大的繁荣。
These principles and words are extremely important. They’re going to come to life first in the financial markets, and then in an agentic world. If we do it right, we’re going to see levels of human autonomy and agency over our own financial lives and other decisions that we’ve never seen before, along with a massive amount of prosperity.
I think one of the killer use cases is capital markets. But the bigger killer use case is going to be the rails on which agents operate on behalf of billions of humans, for their benefit.
资本市场是一个杀手级应用。更大的应用，是让智能体能够代表数十亿人、为他们的利益而行动的基础设施。我们需要把这些原则真正变成现实。
I’m not trying to be a translator, but we keep using these words, and actually making them real matters.
Joseph Lubin
回到 2014 年，我们想建设一个“平台的平台”，类似互联网和万维网，但用户不会被赶走，条款也不会突然改变。
Cool. Take us all back to 2014. There was this interest in the air in building a new kind of platform—a platform of platforms, similar to the internet and the web. But this would be different because you couldn’t be deplatformed from it. You couldn’t have the terms and conditions shift on you.
当时，以太坊就在思考，如何把整个经济和万维网迁移到去中心化基础设施上。金融当然是其中的重要部分。
You heard me mention this: we’ve been increasingly moving towards an economy that’s saturated by vulnerability and the exploitation of vulnerability. We are moving into a new world, and the Ethereum project was thinking about moving all of the economy, all of the web, onto these new decentralized rails.
我记得在一场会议上，我们印了以太坊 T 恤，背面是几段很短的智能合约，其中一段可以铸造代币，还有一个类似 Twitter 的项目。
So we did think quite a bit about finance. There was a conference, I think in April, and we printed up Ethereum shirts with smart contracts on the back. They were very short smart contracts, but one of them minted a coin.
Vitalik built Ethereum because, way back then, in order to build a new system, you’d fork the Bitcoin codebase. You’d make some sort of amazingly innovative change, like reducing the block time from 10 minutes to two minutes or something like that. Then you’d get a whole lot of miners to mine your network, and you had an amazing innovation.
在那之前，创建新系统往往需要分叉比特币代码，修改出块时间之类的参数，再招募矿工。Vitalik 希望把这些事情变得像编写智能合约一样简单，让普通开发者也能创建自己的代币和应用。
Vitalik wanted to make it as easy as writing a smart contract. Any software developer could mint their own coin. On the backs of those shirts, there was also a Twitter-like project, very concise, and two others. I’m forgetting what they were.
所以，我们从一开始就在考虑金融，也在考虑更广泛的应用。
But the point is that, yes, we knew we needed a finance component, and we were also thinking about the whole thing. You can read that in Vitalik’s communications over the years.
有人觉得 Vitalik 不喜欢 DeFi，这完全不符合事实。他喜欢 DeFi，也一直在使用。但他的关注点始终是，如何把更多事物迁移过来。对于去中心化网络上滋生的剥削行为，他可能有些失望。
People feel like Vitalik doesn’t like DeFi. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. Vitalik loves DeFi and uses it all the time. But his focus has always been, “Hey, we’ve got to move everything over.” He may have been a little disappointed in the exploitation that grew up on decentralized rails, partially on Ethereum, partially on other systems.
I think what happened was the organic necessity of building a new financial system, new financial rails, as I was describing before. We need something that is incredibly fluid and incredibly inexpensive to use—not controlling, not writing the laws to enable the financial industry to dominate the economy, but essentially being right-sized and in service.
建设新的金融体系是一种自然产生的需求。我们需要流畅、低成本的金融基础设施，让金融保持适当的规模，为经济服务，避免通过控制和制定规则来主宰经济。
We’ve had a lot of finance nerds building DeFi, and we’ve done some truly remarkable things. We’ve built 10-plus years of innovation—15 or so if we include Bitcoin. But the financial industry is sitting on 400 years of innovation.
DeFi 已经积累了十多年的创新，如果算上比特币，大约是十五年。而传统金融拥有四百年的积累。将这些成熟经验、基础设施和制度构造，与我们建立的新基础结合起来，会非常令人兴奋。
Merging all of that mature understanding, infrastructure, constructs, et cetera, into this disruptive new foundation that we’ve built is going to be really exciting.
零知识证明与扩容 / ZK Proofs and Scaling
Michael Camarda
在你看来，Vitalik 最新的文章对以太坊的未来作出了怎样的描述？
What does Vitalik’s latest essay have to say about the future that's envisioned for Ethereum, from your perspective?
Joseph Lubin
可以从五千年前的一个小村庄来理解去中心化信任。大家彼此认识，我把杯子交给 Michael，再向所有人宣布：“Michael 现在拥有 Joe 的杯子。”大家都知道发生了什么、何时发生，这就是一笔交易。
Sure. The simplest articulation is this: think of decentralized trust in a small village 5,000 years ago, where everybody knew each other. I give you my cup, and you own my cup. We shout out, “Michael has Joe’s cup now,” and everybody knows that. We know what happened and when it happened. That’s a transaction.
后来，我们建立了自上而下的信任体系，由特定的人维护账本。但账本管理者可能偷偷修改记录，把所有者换成自己的亲戚。这套体系帮助人类建立文明，同时也存在问题。
Before Ethereum, we tried to build this top-down, command-and-control trust infrastructure. Certain people maintained ledgers. Sometimes they secretly erased things from those ledgers and wrote their cousin’s name in the ownership slot, and things like that. Great for building civilization, but it has some problems.
以太坊试图重现村庄里人人知情的状态，并加入密码学安全和隐私保护。为此，我们需要大量独立参与者运行计算机，进行重复计算。
What Ethereum tried to replicate was this town-like situation where everybody knows everything, with cryptographic security and privacy. To get decentralized trust, that required many independent actors running computers and doing redundant computations.
So, great—we built a prototype system for a new trust foundation for the world. But how do we make it scale so that we can move the whole internet and the whole web onto decentralized rails?
我们已经建立了新的信任基础原型，接下来要解决的是，如何扩展到足以承载整个互联网和万维网。
This magical technology came along called zero-knowledge proof cryptography. We are in the process of moving Ethereum towards proving its blocks with zero-knowledge proofs in real time.
零知识证明提供了新的可能。我们正在推动以太坊实现实时区块证明，并利用这项技术，让 L2、L1，以及基于以太坊技术构建的私有许可链相互协调。
We’re taking zero-knowledge proof technology and bringing together layer 2s, layer 1, and even private, permissioned blockchain systems built on Ethereum technology, making the entire Ethereum ecosystem coordinatable.
你可以在多个网络执行交易，生成零知识证明，再把证明提交给一个验证协调器，也就是网络上的智能合约。它确认这些操作在数学上是一致的，再通知各个网络在本地提交。
You can run transactions on a bunch of different networks and generate zero-knowledge proofs for them. You send those proofs to a validator coordinator, a smart contract on a network. It says, “These are all mathematically consistent.” It sends those messages back to everyone trying to do things on the different networks. They commit locally, the validator commits locally, and you’ve done a ton of transactions.
这样，就可以在不使用跨链桥的情况下转移代币，通过证明不同网络上的状态变化，实现多链交易的原子执行，并将碎片化流动性汇聚起来。
You’ve moved tokens across networks without using any bridges. You’re just proving the changes of state on all these networks. We can now have atomic execution contexts for lots of transactions across lots of chains. We can bring fragmented liquidity into a unified liquidity pool.
大家可以期待这方面的进展在 2027 年到来。我们已经有了概念验证。
Look for that coming in 2027. We’ve got proofs of concept of the technology, and that’s one of the directions we’re moving.
零知识证明也在进入整个协议。今天，不同客户端进行重复计算，通过多样性提高系统可靠性。未来，我们会采用经过形式化验证的证明系统，由不同团队、不同技术构建的证明器提供实时证明，保留必要的冗余。
Zero-knowledge proof technology is making its way into the whole protocol. Today, we have a bunch of different clients doing redundant computation. It’s important to have diverse clients running the system: if one has a problem, the others can pick up for it.
这样，大规模去中心化可以帮助提升性能，同时减轻为获得去中心化信任而承担的计算负担。
We’re going to replace the traditional client architecture with formally verified proving systems. We can prove in real time what’s going on across a bunch of different provers, built by different teams with different technologies, so we maintain the redundancy.
There’s some heavy computation that needs to happen, but we can have so many validators. That’s where decentralized trust comes in. This is the architecture that replaces that massive redundancy. We turn massive decentralization into a performance assist, rather than a computational burden we have to deal with to get decentralized trust.
在数据方面，纠删码允许节点分别保存带有冗余的数据片段，无须每个节点都存储完整区块链。只需要其中少数节点，就能重建所需数据。
In terms of data systems, we can use something called erasure coding. Instead of all these nodes having to hold the whole system, the whole blockchain, they can hold redundant pieces of it. You only need a few of these nodes to reconstruct whatever you need.
这些设计既能保障严谨的去中心化信任，也能提升性能，以更低成本提供更多数据。
We’re moving into a world where all of these design decisions give us rigorous decentralized trust, performance speedups, and much cheaper access to much more data.
Michael Camarda
这种新架构会解锁哪些应用场景？
What sort of use cases are unlocked by that new architecture, from your perspective?
Joseph Lubin
它会触及整个世界的运行体系，涉及所有领域。
We are contacting the system of the world. Everything.
Michael Camarda
Joseph，你怎么看？
Fair enough. Joseph, what do you think?
Joseph Chalom
刚才 Joe 谈到了 Vitalik 的构想。即使只看 Justin Drake 的路线图，未来五到七年，以太坊的性能也会大幅提升。主网将能够每秒处理一万笔交易，高性能 L2 则能每秒处理一百万笔交易，同时变得更轻量、更模块化。
What you just heard is Vitalik. But even if you just look at Justin Drake’s roadmap and look forward five to seven years from now, Ethereum is going to be massively performant. Mainnet will be able to do 10,000 transactions per second; a performant L2, one million transactions per second. It’s going to be lighter and more modular.
如果零知识证明得以实现，以太坊会成为机构觉得必须使用的区块链。我们讨论多年的隐私保护能力，也会成为默认功能。许多专门为机构提供隐私功能的 L2 或协议，其能力可能会被原生功能吸收。
If you can do the ZK proofs, it’s going to be the first blockchain that institutions feel they must use. By definition, you’re going to be able to transact, and it’s going to have the default privacy features we’ve been talking about for a number of years. I do believe a lot of these L2s or protocols built just to provide privacy for institutions are going to be co-opted by native capabilities.
最近，私有许可链获得了很多关注和资金。但我们在贝莱德尝试过，也失败了。到 2019 年，我们已经认识到这条路走不通，随后调整了方向。
I’m going to say this out loud—and please don’t quote me—but a lot of these private, permissioned chains are getting a lot of attention and funding these days. At BlackRock, we failed. In 2018, 2019—we knew by 2019 that private, permissioned chains were not going to work. We pivoted.
为什么这些私有机构链又成了最新一批“以太坊杀手”？我的比喻很简单，孩子最初需要吃婴儿食品，但没有成年人会选择一辈子只吃婴儿食品。对逐渐成熟的机构来说，这可能是必要的第一步。
I get this question a lot: why do these private, permissioned chains seem to be getting their 15 minutes of fame? There have been a lot of “Ethereum killers,” the most recent being these private institutional chains.
未来的以太坊会具备高性能、低成本和可信赖的特性。大量计算在链下完成，简单验证在链上完成，这对全球最大的机构会非常有吸引力。
My answer is very simple. I have children, and they start with soft baby food. But I don’t know any adult who chooses to eat soft baby food for the rest of their life. It’s a necessary first step for people who are maturing and growing up.
The Ethereum that Joe just described, the Ethereum that’s coming, the Ethereum that I described—massively performant, cheap, trustworthy, with a lot of the computation happening offchain and simple verification happening onchain—is going to be very attractive to the world’s largest institutions.
如果未来有数十亿用户、数百亿智能体进行大量小额支付，就必须重新设计架构，以承载这些需求。
If we expect billions and billions of users, with tens and tens of billions of agents doing a lot of micropayments, this system has to be rearchitected to support that.
我相信未来会是全链互联的世界。但对于需要真正安全、信任，以及高价值交易最终性保障的机构，以太坊会是必然的选择。
I don’t believe we’re going to live in a world where there’s only one chain. We’re going to live in an omnichain world. But if you want true security and trust, and you want your high-value transactions to have guaranteed finality, you’re going to have no choice but to choose Ethereum.
这份路线图并不新，但大量创新会在未来几年实现。应用需求与技术创新正在汇合，这是我所见过的以太坊最令人兴奋的阶段。
This roadmap is not new, but a lot of the innovation is happening over the next couple of years. I think it’s the most exciting period I’ve observed in Ethereum. The use cases and the innovation are going to converge, and you need both. So I’m quite excited.
推动大规模采用 / Catalysts for Adoption
Michael Camarda
在 Sharplink，我们常说要看看以太坊的“记分牌”。采取以太坊数字资产财库战略的一个原因，就是需要更积极地向外界讲清楚它的竞争优势。
We have this concept at Sharplink where we talk about looking at the scoreboard for Ethereum. I think one of the reasons we pursued the digital asset treasury strategy for Ethereum was that we needed to be more vocal about all of these competitive advantages that are unique to Ethereum.
以太坊已经完成了最困难的部分，实现严谨的去中心化，积累深厚的流动性和代币化资产。接下来，它还将拥有 L1 的高性能和 L2 的扩展能力。全球监管环境也在逐渐清晰，智能体技术则带来了新的发展动力。
They’ve done the hard part. They’ve done the rigorous decentralization. They have the depth of liquidity and the tokenized assets. They’re now going to have the performance at L1 and the scalability at L2. We also have regulatory clarity emerging, not just in the US but globally.
推动广泛采用的下一个催化剂是什么？我相信最终一切都会在以太坊上结算。要进入下一波发展浪潮，还需要什么？
And we also have this tailwind of agentic technology. What is the next catalyst for broad adoption? I’m a very strong believer, obviously, that ultimately everything will settle on Ethereum. From your perspective, what is needed to really take us to the next wave?
Joseph Chalom
最简短的回答是，稳定币规模从 3200 亿增长到数十万亿美元，并继续大规模在以太坊上结算。
Shortest answer of the day: stablecoins grow from 320 billion to tens of trillions, and they continue to settle on Ethereum in a very big way.
代币化资产目前只有约 400 亿美元的规模，而 Securitize 早在 2017 年就成立了。我们需要这些产品真正投入使用，创造流动性，因为流动性会催生更多流动性。
Tokenized assets—there are only about 40 billion in tokenized assets, and Securitize started in 2017. We need these things to go into production and create liquidity, because liquidity creates liquidity.
We’re done with proofs of concept. We’re done with press releases. I have this very strong view that PR and proofs of concept are experimentation. It is not innovation until you put it in the hands of the user.
概念验证和新闻稿已经够了。公关宣传和概念验证仍然只是实验，只有真正交到用户手中，才算创新。我们需要大规模的实际应用。
What we need is for that experimentation, that innovation, to be put into production at massive scale. That’s what we need.
Joseph Lubin
机构正在进入这个领域，数万亿美元的资产正在被代币化。在个人用户端，自托管也开始进入主流，成为以用户为中心的万维网的重要基础能力。
The institutions are coming. Trillions of dollars of assets are being tokenized. On the retail side, there’s the understanding that self-custody is a primitive that’s going mainstream, and it’s an important part of the user-centric World Wide Web.
我想借 MetaMask 举个例子。我们希望让世界各地的人真正掌控自己的财务生活。
If you’ll allow me a 45-second commercial break to talk about what MetaMask is doing with self-custody, we’ve actually hit a sort of holy grail with MetaMask. We’ve been trying to enable people around the world to feel fully in control of their financial lives, like they have real financial agency.
Right now, a lot of us have a lot of accounts. We’ve gone through KYC for all those accounts, and we have to repeat it again and again. You’ve got money in your bank account, your brokerage account, and a bunch of apps. A lot of the time, it’s sitting there idle. It’s not really earning.
今天，很多人拥有大量银行、证券和应用账户，每个账户都要做身份核验，而且经常需要重复。资金分散在这些账户里，很多时候处于闲置状态，没有产生收益。
We’ve created what we’re calling an open money system, or a personal money operating system, in MetaMask. It’s really one account. You move your money into the account, and you’re instantly earning a 6% yield or higher. You have full liquidity over your money at all times.
我们在 MetaMask 中建设的是一个开放货币系统，或者说个人资金操作系统。用户将资金转入一个账户，就能立即获得 6% 或更高的收益率，同时保持资金的流动性，无须为了提取自己的钱向银行申请、等待数日。
You never have to ask a bank manager if you can take more than $3,000 out of your bank account, only to be told to come back a day or two later to get your money.
You can pay with tokens. You can pay with your debit card. It’s a blockchain-based debit card, and it runs on the global Mastercard rails. In 190 countries, at 150 million points of sale, you can buy dinner or buy stuff. Right up until the second you pay for something, your money is earning.
用户可以用代币付款，也可以使用基于区块链、接入万事达卡全球网络的借记卡，在 190 个国家、1.5 亿个销售网点消费。直到付款前的最后一秒，资金都还在产生收益。
And that wasn’t good enough. You can do all the kinds of trading you want to do: different kinds of tokenized equities, equity perps, all kinds of other perps, and prediction markets.
它还支持代币化股票、股票永续合约、其他永续合约和预测市场等交易。未来，我们会加入更便利的身份机制，减少重复 KYC。
Essentially, it is now your personal money operating system, and it’s going to continue to evolve. We’re going to have an identity construct that’s very delightful. You won’t have to go through KYC all over the place.
智能体钱包也即将到来。通过委托授权框架，智能体只能在用户设定的权限和规则内交易。我们还会继续把机器智能融入 MetaMask。
Very soon, we’ll have an agentic wallet so your agents can trade very safely. We have a delegation framework that ensures they can’t do anything you don’t want them to do, anything that’s out of policy. And we’re increasingly going to infuse machine intelligence into MetaMask.
It’ll be a personal financial operating system. But in terms of your identity and personal data, it really needs to be a personal data locker, too.
最终，它既是个人财务操作系统，也应当成为身份和个人数据的保险箱。用户拥有自己的操作系统，并能与其他人的系统互相协作，这就是去中心化万维网的一种形态。
That’s one aspect of what the decentralized World Wide Web looks like: your own personal operating system that can interoperate with other personal operating systems on the decentralized web.
2035 年的用户体验 / The User Experience in 2035
Michael Camarda
你似乎已经回答了下一个问题。
I feel like you just answered this next question, but maybe if you could elaborate a little bit more.
Joseph Lubin
我说过了，我生活在未来。
Told you I live in the future.
Michael Camarda
让我们直接来到 2035 年。数十亿人可能正在使用以太坊，却并不知道。他们对金钱、所有权和互联网的体验，会发生什么根本变化？先请 Joseph，再请 Joe。
Let’s jump forward to 2035. In the future, billions of people could be interacting with Ethereum without knowing they’re using Ethereum. Joseph, then Joe: what is fundamentally different about how they experience money, ownership, and the internet?
Joseph Chalom
普通用户不会关注自己是否在使用以太坊，就像看 YouTube 时，不会关心视频运行在哪家云服务上。
I’ll give you the retail perspective, because I’ve spent most of my life on the institutional side.
The average retail consumer won’t be thinking they’re on Ethereum. Just like when you watch a YouTube video, you’re not asking what cloud it’s running on.
他们的智能体会提供强大的金融知识支持，比绝大多数财务顾问更聪明、更诚实、更透明。而用户的规则会被写进代码，无须仅凭信任来保证顾问遵守。
Retail users are going to experience two things I might have mentioned earlier that they lack today. Their agent is going to give them unlimited financial literacy. Your agent is going to be smarter, definitely more honest, and more transparent than 99% of financial advisers in the world. And you won’t have to trust a human financial adviser to follow your rules; those rules will be encoded.
当雇主以稳定币发放工资时，资金不会闲置在收益只有七个基点的支票账户中。智能体会立即让这些钱发挥作用。
At that point, most users will be able to wake up in the morning and know that when they receive a deposit in stablecoins from their employer, it won’t sit in a checking account that, by default, earns seven basis points. The first thing their agents will do, as Joe described, is make that money productive. You’ll never have anything idle in your portfolio.
But that’s just cash. Most of us have goals in life. Some are short-term; some are longer-term. For the young people in the room, your biggest liability is your retirement. But you don’t think that way, because you don’t have the attention to think about what needs to happen between ages 50 and 100.
但这还只是现金管理。每个人都有短期和长期目标。年轻人最大的未来财务负担之一是退休，但很少有人有精力认真规划 50 岁到 100 岁之间的生活。
Your agent will understand your needs and your risk tolerance. It will start by suggesting a portfolio for you. Then it will build that portfolio. And because you don’t pay attention when the markets change, it will rebalance your portfolio. As you age, it will rebalance your portfolio.
智能体会理解你的需求和风险承受能力，推荐、建立投资组合，并随着市场变化和年龄增长持续调整。在美国，它还可以利用亏损持仓进行税损收割，抵扣资本利得。
In the US, we have onerous capital gains taxes. Your agent will look for losers in your stock portfolio and use tax-loss harvesting to offset gains.
That’s just the asset side of your balance sheet. Who here has insurance policies, mortgages, or credit card balances?
这只是资产一侧。对于房贷、保险和信用卡等，智能体同样能发挥作用。
When you have a mortgage in the US, financial institutions try to predict something called the prepayment speed: who is going to refinance their mortgage when it logically makes sense? Those speeds are very low.
例如，房贷利率从 6% 降到 4.5%，许多人没有及时重新融资，因此多付了数万美元利息。智能体会发现变化，代表用户比较整个市场的方案，寻找低费用和好利率。
Why? Because you might have a 6% mortgage, and when rates come down to 4.5%, you don’t think about it. You lose tens of thousands of dollars in interest payments.
Your agent will know that mortgage rates have come down. On your behalf, it will bid out your mortgage—not to a small network of mortgage providers and banks, but to every single offering. It will get you the best rates at the lowest fees.
汽车保险续保时，它也不会被动接受涨价 30%，而会利用完整信息寻找更合适的保单。
When your auto insurance comes up for renewal, it won’t just auto-renew with a 30% increase. Your agent will have perfect information and get you a better policy.
一开始，人们可能不愿让智能体介入自己的财务生活。但它可以从简单交易开始，和用户一起学习，逐渐建立信任，再获得更多授权。整个过程都应该透明。
In the beginning, it sounds like science fiction. Who would trust somebody to touch their financial life? But these agents will learn with you. You’ll trust them. It will start with easy transactions, and then you’ll delegate authority. It should be completely transparent to you.
The final thing I’ll say is that one reason many of us don’t reach our full potential in our financial lives is that we get distracted by the attention economy. Who here buys something because it was cool, because it was in a Super Bowl ad? Or you do a Google search and don’t realize the first seven results are sponsored. Or maybe your broker has some hidden incentive.
另一个问题是注意力经济。广告、搜索结果中的付费推广，以及经纪人的隐藏利益激励，都会干扰我们的财务决策。智能体可以忽略这些干扰。
That is awful.
未来，个人投资者将拥有与贝莱德等大型机构类似的工具。机构会系统性地管理现金、开展证券借贷，并使用产生收益的资产作抵押。个人用户也能做到这一点。例如，抵押品可以是 BUIDL 或其他产生利息的国债类资产。
Your agent will ignore all of that. There is a world where billions of humans interact with tens of billions of agents acting on their behalf.
I think retail investors are going to have all the same tools that the largest institutions on Wall Street, like BlackRock, have had. When BlackRock owns a stock, they borrow and lend against it systematically. They don’t have an idle dollar of cash. They have treasury managers who know how to do it. They know how to optimize and pledge yield-bearing collateral.
我希望这个未来具备相应的约束机制，避免产生新的入口控制者。如果它建立在以太坊这样的去中心化基础设施上，并通过程序执行，我们就更有可能得到积极的结果。
Only in crypto do you pledge a stablecoin as collateral. No—you pledge BUIDL. You pledge something like a Treasury that’s earning interest.
这对人类是一个积极的愿景。很多中介机构会面临挑战，而它们也应该接受这种挑战。
That is the financial future. I hope it will have guardrails so we don’t end up with new gatekeepers. And I think we have the greatest chance of that positive outcome if it happens programmatically on decentralized rails like Ethereum.
That is my vision. It’s a positive vision for humanity, and a lot of intermediaries are going to struggle. They should.
Joseph Lubin
我们很多人读着科幻和赛博朋克作品长大，我小时候也看了很多《星际迷航》。机器智能正在加速科学、技术和人类活动的各个方面，世界变得越来越神奇。
Nice. A lot of us grew up reading science fiction and cyberpunk. I watched a lot of Star Trek growing up. Given that machine intelligence is accelerating every aspect of science, technology, and human endeavor right now, I think it’s fair to say we’re living in a world of increasing magic.
So 2035 is unfathomable, but I’m going to go all the way to whatever year Star Trek was set in—and beyond Star Trek.
2035 年已经很难想象，但我想走得比《星际迷航》更远。
They didn’t have much of a notion of money. You’d hear about it a little bit, so you assume that behind the scenes, maybe there’s some money moving around.
我认为，金钱的性质很快会发生变化。国家仍然会发行自己的货币或代币，公司和个人也会发行不同的代币。人们将使用种类极其丰富的代币进行支付和收款。
I think the nature of money is going to change qualitatively very soon. There will be nation-state money. It’s appropriate for a collective called a nation-state to have its own magic internet money, its own tokens. Every company is going to have different tokens that it mints or cares about. People will have the ability to mint their own tokens.
We’re increasingly going to be able to pay and receive an enormous diversity of tokens. Fortunately, we have computers. They’ll be able to keep track of the tokens we want to receive when we’re making an exchange, and the ones we want to get rid of and pay with. If there’s no intersection, there will be brokers who can make a little bit on that.
计算机会管理这些复杂性，记录我们愿意接收什么、愿意花掉什么。如果交易双方的需求没有交集，就由中介撮合，收取少量收益。整个过程会由手机和计算机在后台完成。
All of that becomes very fluid. It gets done behind the scenes by our phones or computers.
《星际迷航》没有深入展现机器人和人工智能带来的变化。未来，我们可能通过脑机接口，与类似数字孪生体的机器智能紧密结合，近乎以心灵感应的方式行动。
One thing Star Trek didn’t lean into was robotics and artificial intelligence. It’s still a bunch of humans running around doing stuff, without constantly bonding with their networks of agents and machine intelligences.
What Star Trek didn’t show was that we’ll be operating in the world almost telepathically. Maybe we’ll be using brain-machine interfaces with our machine intelligences, which are sort of our digital twins, bonded to us. They’ll help us operate networks and interact with other people’s networks or corporate networks.
这些智能会帮助我们管理自己的网络，与其他人的网络和企业网络互动。我们也会加入不同群体，协调行动，完成共同关心的事情。
We’re going to be part of these tribes that coordinate activity to do things the tribe cares about.
机器智能、机器人和自动化将逐步满足我们的基本需求，让人们腾出精力，专注于健康、教育、探索、太空旅行和科学。
Where else can I go with this? I think that pretty soon, machine intelligence, robotics, and automation will take care of all our fundamental needs and free us up to focus on health, education, curiosity, exploration, space travel, science, et cetera.
And then there’s culture. We’re primates. Most of us are going to continue to be primates. Some of us might upload ourselves to who knows where and continue as disembodied or embodied virtual intelligences. But to the extent that we remain primates, we’ll keep building different jungles for ourselves to inhabit.
但人类的天性不会消失。大多数人仍然是灵长类动物，仍会需要关注，也可能保留层级关系。有些人或许会把自己上传到某个地方，以虚拟智能的形式存在；其余的人则会继续为自己打造不同的“丛林”。
We’ll continue to need attention. There will probably still be hierarchical relationships. Once everything gets taken care of, we’ll still have our essential nature.
当基本需求得到满足，文化会变得尤其重要。无论社会多么简单，都需要一种大家能够理解、将彼此凝聚起来的文化。我期待看到社交网络，以及万物的游戏化和金融化，将把我们带向哪里。
Culture is going to be everything. No matter how simple your society is, you have a culture that everybody understands and that holds it together.
I look forward to seeing where social networking, and the gamification and financialization of everything, take us.
Michael Camarda
说得很好。不知道你当初有没有想到，这种文化里会有今天现场这么多穿西装的人。
Very well put. I don’t know if you expected your culture to have as many suits as we have in here today, but…
Joseph Chalom
我刚才还以为，再过一分钟，我们就要说自己其实并没有生活在现实里，一切只是模拟了。
I thought we were about a minute away from saying we’re actually not living in reality. This is just a simulation.
Joseph Lubin
一个被制造出来的现实。
It’s a manufactured reality.
结语 / Closing Reflections
Michael Camarda
我们稍微超时了。两位还有什么最后想说的？
Yeah, any final thoughts? I know we’ve run a little over time, but are there any final thoughts from either of you?
Joseph Chalom
每个人都应该为成为这个生态的一员感到自豪。我们认真把事情做好，不走捷径。
I think everyone needs to be proud to be part of this ecosystem. It is the best ecosystem. We do things right. We don’t take shortcuts.
我希望大家不要把企业、协议或人生看成零和博弈，认为自己的成功必须以别人的失败为前提。生态系统的美好之处，在于不同生命体可以共生。无论是生产者还是消费者，我们都需要合作，为未来建设。
I really hope we don’t view our businesses, our protocols, or our lives as a zero-sum game. There are lots of tribes who believe they’re the ones who are going to succeed and everyone else needs to fail.
除了资本市场和智能体，我们还没有谈到以太坊的治理应用。我认为，未来许多组织和国家会通过自动执行的智能合约，管理部分事务。
The beautiful thing about an ecosystem—and I use that word intentionally—is that it’s like a living thing interacting with other living things in a symbiotic way. In the Ethereum ecosystem, among the people in this room, it doesn’t matter whether you’re a producer or a consumer. We need to collaborate, avoid shortcuts, and build for the future.
I’ll put one last thing in. Beyond the capital markets and agentic use cases, we haven’t talked about the governance use case of Ethereum.
我甚至期待有一天，国家需要质押相当一部分经济利益。如果它入侵另一个国家，智能合约就自动扣掉 620 亿美元。这有点像玩笑，但也不完全是。
I think lots of different types of organizations and nation-states will end up using self-executing smart contracts to manage parts of their lives. I look forward to a day when, to be a nation, you have to stake a lot of your national economy. And if you invade another nation, there’s an automatic smart contract execution: they debit $62 billion.
以太坊确实具备治理能力，可以帮助大小组织执行规则，减少对人的信任的依赖，以及偏见和贪婪带来的影响。
It’s kind of a joke, but it’s not. Ethereum has that governance capability. It can help organizations, from the smallest to the largest, execute in a way that removes reliance on human trust, human bias, and human avarice.
能够成为这个群体的一员，我非常自豪。感谢各位，也感谢大家在一天接近尾声时仍然参与讨论。
So my final thought is that I’m very proud to be part of this group. I love working with the people in this room, and I appreciate you taking the time late in the day.
Joseph Lubin
许多群体存在剥削行为，但有一个群体在追求可信中立、抗审查，并尽可能让弱势者免受剥削。谢谢大家成为以太坊生态的一员，也感谢世界各地所有相信这一愿景的人。
Yeah, on a similar note, some tribes are about exploitation. Most tribes on planet Earth are about exploitation.
There’s one tribe that’s about credible neutrality, censorship resistance, and making it as difficult as possible to exploit the vulnerable.
So thank you all for being part of the Ethereum ecosystem, and thanks to everyone around the world for believing in the vision.
Joseph Chalom
最后，感谢所有赞助商，尤其感谢 SNZ 组织这场活动。报名热度远超预期，说明大家都看好以太坊。特别感谢 SNZ 的 Cynthia 和整个团队。活动组织得非常顺畅，嘉宾也非常出色。谢谢大家。
One last thing: I do want to thank the sponsors, particularly SNZ, for pulling this together. The level of oversubscription at this event says that we’re bullish on Ethereum.
I also want to personally thank Cynthia from SNZ, who pulled this together along with the entire team. It was smooth. It was remarkable. I loved the panelists.
Thank you.